Any Design Ideas?

[Goldenspurholderx2]

My dream of constructing my retreat which will eventually become my home are a little closer to becoming reality. With recent snow fall and power lines going down and starting fires in a prominent area of our city combined with me taking a new job that is in a more rural location spurred a good conversation with the wife. I convinced her of the benefits of going off grid and being all solar with an LP back up system to run the stove and back up generator. We will be going out this weekend to start looking at land.

She wants the instant gratification of buying another new house. I didn't want to buy the one we are in but my military obligations didn't make me building it feasible. I'm holding firm this time, I will build our new house, something I have done with my parents and most of my family. I come from a long line of people who have built their own homes.

I'm thinking of using concrete block construction with a stone veneer on the out side with conventional drywall over foam insulation inside. I am going to make it "passive solar" with active solar radiant heating and solar power with a wood stove for supplemental heat. I want to use collected rain water with a cistern for water maybe get a well drilled and composting toilets. I want the basement to be pretty much solar utilities, water storage tanks, root cellar, and safe room. I would like a garage door going into the basement from the out side for bringing in wood to be transported to the main floor via a dumb waiter set up and for easy removal of the composting toilets' main compost chamber also located in the basement.

This will take me about two years to build but to get out from under a mortgage and be free of utility bills it is worth the work.

Any suggestions or recommendations welcome.

Thanks,
Dave

[Bidah]

If you are going to roll your own, you might want to look into SIPS (Structural Insulated Panels) or the foam blocks that you fill with concrete (for the life of me can't remember now). The nice thing about SIPS is that they are VERY energy efficient, and you can order them already cut and put them up.

I would put the cistern outside in the ground and save the precious basement space.

Take a look at your current power usage, and then start cutting that down... it gets expensive really quick. You can save a lot just going to the compact flourecents..

more as I think of it.. :)

Or you could make the trip up here and see our place. While not exactly what you are looking at doing, it is close.

-Bidah

[Goldenspurholderx2]

I've looked into the SIPs and the foam blocks. The main thing is I want to do most of the labor myself and I can't see me raising SIPs all by my lonesome. The blocks have merit but I have to get a contractor to fill them with a concrete truck since they will require lots of concrete. I was planning on having the excavation done by a contractor along with a slab then do the basement on up with blocks filled in with re-bar and concrete as I had time to work on it after my day job and weekends. The main thing is I want to build it like I do my firearms, buy the pieces when I've got money and take my time to get it right. I would like to keep contractors out of the equation as much as possible. I was going to go with a log cabin but then getting a 24' log into place to scribe and then settle into place is more than I can handle on my own, plus logs are expensive. I'm set on going with timber rafters and I'm scared to see what a 4x6 17 foot timber is going to run me.

This would be easier if I lived back east with the rest of my family. I'd have 4 older brothers who "owe" me and a John Deere bulldozer at my disposal. That's what happens when you move away for a better job and local politics you can live with.

[Bidah]

The SIPS are not bad, but you would need two people to handle them. Going with the cinder blocks is not a bad idea, and one that I have had. We need to add a garage that has room on top, and I don't want to contract that either. We are also getting ready to build a barn, but that will be post and beam, a bit simpler.

I live by my family, but they are either too busy with their lives, or too comfortable.

-Bidah

[Goldenspurholderx2]

I have put up a pole barn in the past. After getting the poles set it's pretty much a one man operation getting the sheathing on, depending on the materials. I want to do a double thickness of blocks in the basement for more rigidity and single for the 1st floor and pony wall. I know that once I get the main construction done I'll have to take out a second on my current house to get all the appliances and PV components but since my house has appreciated about 30 grand in the last 2 years this shouldn't be a problem. Then sell this house and be done with a mortgage! I know there are battles ahead with the wife but I'll stand my ground. I'm getting excited and I don't even have land yet. One of the biggest hurdles was convincing my citified wife to move in the first place! She didn't like our apartments, so we bought a house, now there are still just too many people and kids "crowding" us.

[Dr. X]

Dave, you might consider building a partially earth-sheltered home, setting the house back into the bank and having your passive solar panels as the front south-facing wall. Solar water, heat and photovoltaics in this area as well. The hardest problem would be the construction of the roof system which would have to be reinforced concrete. This works especially well on an uneven lot...

Rock is great to build with for a lasting, fire-proof structure but rock houses are cold as hell, no matter how well-insulated...

I built my own place and my first objective was getting it dried in, not even windows and doors at first, just getting the roof on it and some kind of insulation board. After that, you can build as you can afford it, without fear of your efforts being detroyed by the weather. It also enables you to stay out of debt, which to me is as important as any other aspect of self-sufficiency...:cool:

as ever,
Dr. X

[Arizona Highlander]

Jeff Cooper, in his book “To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth” has a chapter devoted to “Notes on Tactical Residential Architecture.” It’s more design ideas than practical building advice, but it might be worth a look.

Here’s a few photos of a real-life “fortress” style survival retreat that’s not too far from my home (hope the owner doesn’t get pissed - but heck, it’s located right off a paved road)!

http://home.att.net/~gyorai/bunker_2.jpg

http://home.att.net/~gyorai/bunker_3.jpg

It’s built partially underground, and the heavy earthen embankments would not only provide insulation against winter’s cold, but would also offer protection against both radioactive fallout as well as small arms fire. And get a load of the elongated, reinforced concrete entryway (top photo) and all those tunnels (bottom photo) - what are those for???

Honestly, though: I’d really balk at building something like this myself. This place practically screams “SURVIVALIST LIVES HERE,” and since I’m someone who prefers to keep a low profile, it’s a little over-the-top for my tastes. But, as an “idea-generator,” it could be a design worth studying.

[FN74]

Jeff Cooper, in his book “To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth” has a chapter devoted to “Notes on Tactical Residential Architecture.” It’s more design ideas than practical building advice, but it might be worth a look.

Here’s a few photos of a real-life “fortress” style survival retreat that’s not too far from my home (hope the owner doesn’t get pissed - but heck, it’s located right off a paved road)!

http://home.att.net/~gyorai/bunker_2.jpg

http://home.att.net/~gyorai/bunker_3.jpg

It’s built partially underground, and the heavy earthen embankments would not only provide insulation against winter’s cold, but would also offer protection against both radioactive fallout as well as small arms fire. And get a load of the elongated, reinforced concrete entryway (top photo) and all those tunnels (bottom photo) - what are those for???

Honestly, though: I’d really balk at building something like this myself. This place practically screams “SURVIVALIST LIVES HERE,” and since I’m someone who prefers to keep a low profile, it’s a little over-the-top for my tastes. But, as an “idea-generator,” it could be a design worth studying.

That's a really cool place, but I agree, a little too obvious. I was thinking of mounding up the earth about 3-5 feet around a poured/reenforced concrete basement and putting a wooden dog trot style raised home (real common in the south - raised homes) over it, with a hidden enterance into the basement, and an escape hatch/tunnel that would run for several hundred yards away from the basement to a patch of woods or something of that nature. I've looked at a number of designs and have decided that I need to buy land in a rolling hills section of the south.
I've also considered a home built into the side of a hill as well.

[Goldenspurholderx2]

I don't want to build partial underground except the basement, lose 360 degree view from inside and it might be out of my scope of home building skills.

I might have to start with the lowly non-attached garage. That way I'll have a secure place to lock up my tools between work sessions.

I'll check out the Cooper book, going to the library tomorrow.

[Goldenspurholderx2]

Today I went to my new place of employment for a wiz quiz and a physical. As long as my piss test doesn't come up "HOT" I have a job. About 20 miles from there I saw some land (35 acres) for sale. It was all flat land and not really what I'm looking for. I want some land that is in the foot hills of the mountains, I plan on bugging in but I'd like to have a place to fall back to. Oh well, even if I find the perfect land tomorrow I won't be able to do anything financially for at least another six months.

P.S.- good pics, thanks! Yeah, it does look a little obvious. Those concrete things almost look like culverts.

[Godscarp]

I've looked into the SIPs and the foam blocks. The main thing is I want to do most of the labor myself and I can't see me raising SIPs all by my lonesome.

You can raise SIPS panels by yourself, if you can keep them under 10-12' in length and get them up on the deck. You can use either wall jacks or a Ginie lift. Once you get the splines started, a sledge will snug them up. A couple of studs nailed to the rim joist will keep them from toppleing over. I've done it both ways, but I had help stacking them, in order on the deck. My two cents worth.

Carp

[Goldenspurholderx2]

Would you do a conventional rafter roof from there, or rafters then SIPs? Or is it pretty much your choice? I have only heard of SIPs being used as sheathing for Timber Frame construction, I'm guessing from the above post that isn't the case and they are load bearing. I have limited knowledge of them that pretty much stopped at the size and weight.

[Bidah]

SIPS are load bearing and can be used for roofing as well as the walls. The rafters to give it strength actually run inside, so you get the sheeting and the insulation in one step. For doing a roof, you would need some sort of hoist.

-Bidah

[Godscarp]

The SIPS would have to be boomed up to the roof with a crane. Even with experienced carptenters you'd need 3 guys on the roof to set the panels. Lining up and snugging up the splines is a B*#ch. Depending on your design, whether you're vaulting the interior ceilings has a lot to do with wheter the sips make economic sense. I've never installed sips on trusses or conventional framing. The panels are screwed down with 11" washer headed screws..... be pretty tough to get them dead center in each 1-1/2" rafter.
If you are going with flat bottom cord or even vaulted scissor trusses your ability to insulate them yourself fits your plan better. Even with convential 2x12 rafters you can get R-38 batts in.

Keep firing away. I can answer most of your questions.

Carp

[bsdmon]

obvious or not that house in the photos rules. i would love to have something like that.

[Goldenspurholderx2]

I down loaded Google Sketchup, and it is pretty neat. I'm trying to figure out the free span I can use with 4x6 rafters to determine my maximum width. I want to build basically a rectangle with the long leg going east-west so I can load up the southern wall with windows for passive heating. I'm trying to make this into a good remote home that is self sufficient and low maintenance hence the block with stone veneer and a steel roof. That also helps with the forest fire dangers in the area, with a good fire break I should be golden like the shower!

[Godscarp]

The O.C. span for the 4x6's will depend on over-all span and the species of wood. Doug Fir would be your best bet. Pondering your roof........ with the 4x6's you'll be "overspanned" for OSB or even 3/4 T&G. I built one house that used glue-lam trusses and we decked the house with 2x6 t&g fir which was exposed and stained. Over that we put 4x8 panels of OSB on one side with 4" of solid foam glued to it. We used 50yr silicone to caulk all of the seams. The only issue with this was the lack of venting for the 2x6 roof decking.....The architect did not share my concern......


Carp

[tedbo]

AH,uhh,that would be for the SAMs!:eek:

[Goldenspurholderx2]

I have never done a roof like this before and my terms may be incorrect. I know that I am over building this roof. I'd like to use 4x6 timbers open mortised and pegged at the peak, like in timber framing, to make a 90 degree angle for a 12/12 pitch roof. I'd like to space these rafters 24" OC, cover with OSB, sheet rock the inside between the rafters, put 2x6s over the OSB 4" of foam between the 2x6s then more OSB to give me about 2" for ventilation then steel roofing over the OSB. End result I'd like exposed rafters inside with enough room for a loft. I have only done truss roofs before and I'm on the "Harvey Homeowner" level of construction experience. Does this sound doable? How wide between my walls do you think I can get before I can't go with this type of rafter set up?

[sparkky]

working on a modest retreat/bugout/move to home myself.
but it's pretty "crude" by most standards I suspect.
finishing a 40'x50' metal building to live in located in north central Arkansas at the dead end of a private road on 40 acres.
I can give more details and/or answer questions but I don't want to bore anyone.

[Goldenspurholderx2]

Dude, lets hear it. Mine is just dreaming at this point, I'll take "real world" stuff any day!

[sparkky]

A little background first.
Met some darn fine folks from the old Frugal Squirrel board and did a few weekend get togethers with them and decided northern Arkansas with the friends we had made was what we wanted. Got on the net and looked at places and found a "semi" like minded agent and bought 40 acres at the dead end of a private road with access to power and phone in an area I screened for employment and proximity to our friends.
About a month after closing we bought a "fixer-upper" 2 bdrm. trailer and had it delivered. Being a "sparkky" (electrician) I put in the electric service with stuff I scrounged from job leftovers. Bought a 1500 gallon water tank and ran water, phone and power in a trench to the trailer. Seems the farm has the only decent spring on the hill and someone before us had built a 500 gallon capture box so we just pump it up the hill to the tanks. Got hooked up before building regs went into effect about 1 month later we didn't know about. Trailer isn't what I want to die in but we could move to it right now if we wanted.
Cousin had parents die and gave me a 16' van body to haul it off. Took it to the farm for storage. One of my customers repairs shipping containers and made me a deal on a decent 20' container so I hauled it to the farm.

Decided we would go with a metal building about the time steel prices started going nuts so we had a 40x50 built with slab, grading, plumbing, etc.
The builder knew a guy that had about 600 metal to see for .15 cents each so I bought them all 30 miles away from the farm. Still have maybe 100 left over.
Hit a job that was tearing out brand new insulated was and for a 30 pack got 180 8' and 180 4' pieces of paperbacked R-13 insulation.
The building came with 4" plastic backed insulation on the walls and roof. I studded the outside walls all the way around and insulated those with the paperback. Wall off the 1 car garage all the way to the roof and sheetrocked and insulated those.

more later.

[sparkky]

Put in a 2x2 grid ceiling. Working buddy had a customer a year ago that replaced all the 2x2 tiles in their computer room ceiling so I cabbaged onto enough of those to do the ceiling and had enough insulation left to insulate on top of the tiles. Built the interior walls up to the grid. Wired it myself and had a buddy come down and help me plumb it. Plumbing buddy (one of my accounts) is head of maintence in a NICE apartment building and as they remodeled the kitchens I got 2 sets of 7 layer plywood oak veneer cabinets (bases, countertops, sinks and wall units). Rich people don't spend alot of time cooking or even the kitchens for that matter. Got a glass top stove, refer, and tall double oven for the summer kitchen.
Paneled/finished the walls and got all the electrics trimmed out.
Ready for floor coverings. Boss had an account that was a lawyers office building and he gave me 400 18"x18" carpet tiles that wil do the bedrooms and summer kitchen. Linoleum for the kitchen and baths. Worked with a wallpaperer that scrouged some 1 gallong flush toilets off a casino hotel remodel and he gave me 2 of those.
Local high school buddy has a heating/cooling company and sold me a new high efficiency 80,000 propane furnace, 14.5 sear 3 ton AC, all the registers, ducts, AC lines, etc. at his cost and I had local HVAC guy come and run the gas line and set the AC and start everything for me about 3 weeks ago.
Ran across a 1000 gallon propane tank in a yard for sale here and bought it and got it loaded and "smuggled" it down to the farm LATE one night under the cover of darkness and tarps.
Carpenter buddy goes down with me in a couple of weeks to help me set the interior doors so I can actually heat the place and keep working all winter which I haven't done before. I'll trim out this winter.
Wood stove soon to come, just not enough time to deal with it now.
Got a 20KW propane generator in the works as soon as the new replacement arrives. Customer gave me a 3KW and a 10KW UPS.
When I wired the "barn" I identified "emergency circuits (furnace, puter, CB, freezer, refer, liting) and put them in a sub panel I can feed with the genny or with the UPS. I've gotten about 1K amp-hours worth of UPS batteries from a company we do UPS installions with (beer works wonders with the working man LOL).
Approximate room diminions;
kitchen/lvg; 14'wx28'L
garage; 22'wx28L
pantry/summer kitchen; 36'wx12L
Master BR; 14'wx20'L
2nd BR; 14'wx14'L
main Bath; 8'wx6'L
1/2 bath; 5'wx5'L

A few tips.
HAVE A PLAN!! MAKE SURE IT'S WHAT YOU WANT WHEN YOU START.
DRAW ROUGH BLUEPRINTS. and keep one set "on the job and one set at home and record ALL your changes.
When you have a chance to scrounge something you know you will need,
GET IT WHEN THE GETTING IS GOOD!! Don't wait till you're "ready" for it. It won't be available then.
I'm lucky to be in construction and not shy about asking about leftover materials and asking the other crafts questions.
Possibly the best part is we've been at this a little over 5 years from when we first bought the place but WE PAID CASH FOR EVERYTHING. We don't owe a nickle on the farm. The house we live in is a different story but we haven't maxed out the "line of credit" for anything.

Not saying this is a good plan, but it's our plan. And good luck to everyone that wants to do this. Don't wait till you're too damned old to get it done and enjoy it for awhile before father time has his way with you. Cause he will.
Sorry if I bored anyone.
Carry on

[Jim West]

Dave heres a link that may give you some ideas. This is a small structure using a steel building combined with bagged scoria construction with a papercrete covering. The bagged scoria provides insullation.Since your in Colorado I thought I would put this up. This type of structure could also be used with rice hulls as insullation for us folks in humid areas. Jim


http://www.dreamgreenhomes.com/plans/carriagehouse.htm
Carriage House

[Goldenspurholderx2]

sparkky, that sounds like a good little set up ya got there and the price sounds real good. With that 1000lb tank you should be able to get through 2 years if you use it sparingly.

Jim, that design looks real good. I might go with something like that for my garage, get that complete then move on to the house. My wife has become accustom to a more "conventional" type of housing where I look at heat and running water as luxuries after having to do without for a year at a time. It would be good to have a "garage" with enough amenities for living "just in case" while still working on our next home.

[Imaexpat2]

Thanks for the link Jim. There is a couple on a farm here in NE Texas with a simular steel building converted into a home, a rather stylish looking one at that! I always kinda think about that place and what the acommodations are inside everytime I drive by it on the way to work. Ive been tempted to stop by and ask for a tour of the place but been worried about imposing. My only real concern is the summer time elctric bill has got to be a killer unless some sort of insulation was installed inside.

[Jim West]

Expat in the carriage house the insullation is provided by scorria, wich is crushed volcanic rock. Its been brought up that rice hulls could be used. Rice hulls have been used in Louisiana for years as insullation. Rice hulls are also almost fireproof and dont rot. Ill have to find the links I had in the bookmark file on my now deceased HP. I had one detailing rice hulls and one of a couple that took one of the steel quonset type buildings and buried it. The carriage house plans entail strengthening the building to take the weight of the scorria and papercret. This couple in Wyoming I think. just burried theirs. Ill dig around the net and see if I can find the links I lost. I am seriously considering the carriage house plans myself. JIm

Found them. The qouset is actually bermed. Also check the to the culvert house
http://home.earthlink.net/~dectiri/MTQuonst.htm
Montana Quonset Home

http://www.axwoodfarm.com/PAHS/RiceHulls.html
Rice Hull House

http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm
Slide 1