PDA

View Full Version : Was North Korea's Nuke Real?


Ryder
10-14-2006, 04:52 PM
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/4258437.html

Oct. 14, 2006, 8:37AM
North Korean bomb questions grow
Called a failed test or fake explosion, the mysterious event could lead to misperceptions and dangerous backlash, experts say

By CHARLES J. HANLEY
Associated Press

Surveillance aircraft sweeping Asian skies for a hint of krypton or a sign of strontium have deepened the mystery over North Korea's claimed nuclear explosion. Was the blast that rocked global politics an atomic fizzle, a mini-test, or simply the thunder from hundreds of tons of TNT?

Initial air sampling in the area Tuesday by a specialized U.S. WC-135 aircraft found no evidence of the radioactive particles produced by successful nuclear explosions, a U.S. government intelligence official said Friday. Chinese and Japanese monitoring also has detected no telltale evidence.

Later in the day, a senior U.S. administration official said one of a number of tests of samples was consistent with a nuclear explosion, but no definitive conclusion had been reached. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information.

Experts outside government played down the significance of the largely negative findings, and dismissed the idea the test might have been a fake staged with conventional explosives. Studying the few scraps of information available, specialists did warn that prolonged uncertainty over just what happened last Monday inside a North Korean mountain could lead to misperceptions and a potentially dangerous backlash.

"If the North Koreans fear that we perceive it didn't work, will they fear American military action more than before?" asked George Perkovich, of Washington's Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. "And in that case, do they rush into another test, or what?"

Asia scholar John Lewis, a low-profile, unofficial American go-between with North Korea, also worried about reaction and counter-reaction.

"Was it a fizzle? Did they really want to have something small and got something smaller than expected? Why did they do that? How will they (North Korea) react if it didn't work?" asked the Stanford University professor, who has made 14 trips to North Korea since 1987 and visited its nuclear sites.

Estimates of the power of the blast, derived from seismic readings worldwide, vary widely. The French believe it may have been as small as the equivalent of 500 tons of TNT — barely 3 percent the power of the bomb the United States dropped on Hiroshima in 1945. But the Russians project it may have approached Hiroshima size.

The smaller scale might indicate a problem in the complex detonation process, presumably of an "implosion" model using a plutonium core encased in a sphere of conventional explosives.

"It probably misfired. I would call it a partial failure," said physicist David Albright, whose Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security closely tracks North Korean nuclear developments.

Experts also differ over whether the explosion, believed to have been carried out in a sealed horizontal shaft deep underground, would necessarily have vented radioactive particles into the atmosphere. The North Koreans said it hadn't.

Nuclear fission explosions produce such highly radioactive "fallout" byproducts as strontium-90 and cesium-137 that can be spread by wind. But for decades, before suspending nuclear tests in 1992, the United States successfully sealed even major tests to contain such emissions underground, noted Robert Norris, a nuclear specialist with the Natural Resources Defense Council in Washington.

With the seemingly smaller North Korean test — or partial detonation — "I wouldn't expect there to be any seepage," he said.

Albright said, however, that another kind of byproduct, "noble gases" such as krypton and argon, which don't react with other chemicals, inevitably would seep out of a test site and could be detected.

He said he had learned from reliable sources, meanwhile, that the United States conducted another air-monitoring sweep after the Tuesday flight, but those results were not yet in.

Both Albright and Norris dismissed the suggestion the Pyongyang government may have faked a nuclear blast with ordinary explosives.

"It seems outlandish to me that they would transport hundreds of tons of explosives, a substantial number of truckloads, through a very rugged part of North Korea in an attempt to fool the world," Norris said. Satellite surveillance would have spotted such activity, he said.

In the end, in the eyes of the world, Lewis said, "It doesn't matter."

Even the South Koreans, who often favor a softer line toward the North, sounded a similar note Friday.

"Whether the test they conducted was really a nuclear explosion test or not, I think we have to take their determination very seriously and we have to respond in a way that is proportionate to the seriousness of the situation," Chun Yung-woo, South Korea's chief negotiator in the North Korea nuclear impasse, told the Associated Press in Seoul.

lowr8
10-14-2006, 08:22 PM
this scares the sh*t out of me!!
this can only bring on bad, very bad things.

gunsmoke
10-14-2006, 11:31 PM
Logic suggests that the explosion was a fizzle rather than fisson. This is a common occurance when a U235 bomb is rushed into production and the isotope turns out not to be quite as pure as it needs to be.

It is also a common occurance when trying to develop a plutonium fission bomb because a very high level of precise timing is necessary in the initiating part of the mechanism so that the hollow sphere is explosively compressed at an even rate.

In the case of a thermonuclear device there are then severl extra steps, all precisely timed to get the desired result.

A microsecond here a microsecond there and you get a release of a remendous amount of ionizing radiation, a big boom, but all without much of a fireball or shockwave.

FN74
10-15-2006, 03:01 PM
Definatly something to prepare for regardless if it was real or not.

surge223
10-15-2006, 10:35 PM
If they figure out how to attach a nuke to one of the long range missiles that they have also been testing, we're in trouble. :(

delectric
10-17-2006, 03:15 AM
what difference does it make? You have to prepare for it, you might not like it, or understand it.... but prepare for it.

There are a few other nations that have nukes, they never advertize it, but they've had them for years.

What about South Africa? They had nukes, where did they go? Who has them, are they for sale?

Some people say Brazil has nukes, as well as Argentina.

The Paks have them, the Indians have them. Japan has secretly had them for years for ???defense???

So now the NKs have them, small but effective.

Prepare or be dead in the fallout.

411man
10-17-2006, 05:20 PM
Well since Kim Jong-IL is 4 short of a six pack (He once had a dream about a twin trying to assassinate him so he ordered the death of twin male children of a certain age group) who wants to trust to his good gracies that he won't use his nuclear arsenal for any purpose he decides to?

It is his stated aim to re-unit the North and South by force under his rule. He also has stated that he intends for N. Korea to take its proper place as a world nuclear power.

As for the question does N. Korea represent a valid nuclear threat to CONUS beyond just the threats being currently made; consider the following article and link below. Remember that this event occured in 1998.

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200303/kt2003030417272311970.htm

NK Missile Warhead Found in Alaska’



By Ryu Jin
Staff Reporter
The warhead of a long-range missile test-fired by North Korea was found in the U.S. state of Alaska, a report to the National Assembly revealed yesterday.

``According to a U.S. document, the last piece of a missile warhead fired by North Korea was found in Alaska,’’ former Japanese foreign minister Taro Nakayama was quoted as saying in the report. ``Washington, as well as Tokyo, has so far underrated Pyongyang’s missile capabilities.’’

The report was the culmination of monthlong activities of the Assembly’s overseas delegation to five countries over the North Korean nuclear crisis. The Assembly dispatched groups of lawmakers to the United States, Japan, China, Russia and European Union last month to collect information and opinions on the international issue.

The team sent to Japan, headed by Rep. Kim Hak-won of the United Liberal Democrats, reported, ``Nakayama said Washington has come to put more emphasis on trilateral cooperation between South Korea, Japan and the United States since it recognized that the three countries are within the range of North Korean missiles.’’

According to the group dispatched to the U.S., American politicians had a wide range of opinions over the resolution of the nuclear issue, from ``a peaceful resolution’’ to ``military response.’’

Doves, such as Rep. Edward J. Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat and co-chairman of the Bipartisan Task Force on Nonproliferation, called for a peaceful settlement of the current confrontation, by offering food, energy and other humanitarian aid to the poverty-stricken country, while urging the North to give up its nuclear ambitions.

Rep. Markey also said the North should return to the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and the U.S. should make a nonaggression pact with the communist North.

Hardliners, however, warned that the North’s possession of nuclear weapons will instigate a nuclear race in the region, provoking Japan to also acquire nuclear weapons. Rep. Mark Steven Kirk, an Illinois Republican, said the U.S. might have to bomb the Yongbyon nuclear complex should the North try to export its nuclear material to other countries.

Over the controversy concerning the withdrawal of U.S. forces stationed here, most American legislators that the parliamentary delegation met said U.S. troops should stay on the peninsula as long as the Korean people want, the report said.



jinryu@koreatimes.co.kr


End of Text.

Now, who thinks that the N. Korean missile engineers have been sitting on their chairs waiting for another project?

N. Korea isn't developing ICBMs, IRBMs, and other short range ballistic missiles just so they can deliver various sized Stink Bombs on their enemies and neighbors.


No one is paying any attention to the fact that a small nuclear test means a small warhead that can fit on their No Dong II missile giving it greater range.

Geeze Louise ! does anyone think anymore?

Yes its time to prepare I'd say.

TheOtherChris
10-18-2006, 05:42 PM
Now, who thinks that the N. Korean missile engineers have been sitting on their chairs waiting for another project?

N. Korea isn't developing ICBMs, IRBMs, and other short range ballistic missiles just so they can deliver various sized Stink Bombs on their enemies and neighbors.


No one is paying any attention to the fact that a small nuclear test means a small warhead that can fit on their No Dong II missile giving it greater range.

Geeze Louise ! does anyone think anymore?

Yes its time to prepare I'd say.

It's ALWAYS time to prepare, but....

IMHO, North Korea's recent actions demonstrate intent with a lack of ability.
Their short range missiles aren't much better than any other developing nation.
Their medium range gear is problematic at best.
They're working hard on their long range program, but just don't have the range or accuracy to do much more than conduct a splash down test.

As for "small nuclear test means a small warhead", I think you give them WAY too much credit. NK hoped for a powerful demonstration of their nuclear ability to impress their friends and/or potential clients. NOBODY tests a miniaturized warhead before verifying viability of process. You have to test a device to make sure your design and contruction works.
NK tried. It fizzled because they don't have the tech (yet) to start a chain reaction.

Does this mean I don't think they're dangerous? No Way!
But, they don't (yet) have nuclear tipped missiles.

Of course, if they ever manage a successful nuclear explosion, there won't be much to prevent them from loading a cobbled up device onto a cargo ship and detonating it in LA harbor.

Jonas Parker
10-18-2006, 08:38 PM
http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/site/modules/news/

Nuclear Threats : The North Korean Nuclear Gambit
Posted by Sean Osborne on 2006/10/17 9:23:17 (283 reads)

*by Sean Osborne, Associate Director, Senior Analyst, Military Affairs
sosborne@homelandsecurityus.com

17 October 2006: Over the course of the past week there have been enough reports and credible rumors circulating just below the surface to make the following assessment and forecast of near-term possibilities or probabilities:

1.) The now offically acknowledged nuclear test conducted by North Korea a week ago yesterday was actually a test of the first-stage of a two stage hydrogen bomb. The sub-kiloton blast is assessed to have been a complete success.

2.) The much-rumored upcoming test is expected or anticipated in US military circles to be a test of both stages of a hydrogen warhead. The consensus is that North Korea plans to test its hydrogen bomb as soon as possible, possibly sometime this week.

One military source has stated the possibility that a combined missile test and h-bomb test might occur, with the warhead detonating in the upper regions of the atmosphere over the Pacific Ocean. The same source also suggests that Red China has been very embarrassed by the first North Korean nuclear test. To mitigate or prevent further embarrassment the Red Chinese are rumored to be covertly seeking the assassination or overthrow of North Korean dictator Kim Jong-Il.

Additional details will be provided as they are developed.

411man
10-19-2006, 07:53 PM
Anyone see the Diane Sawyer interview with N. Korean Gen. Ri ? He is the General that is in charge over the Border between North and South Korea.

He said to her, "We have nuclear weapons to defend our country and our people," .

Here is what else he had to say on the subject of N. Korea's current Nuclear capabilities.

" Sawyer asked him what the words of North Korea meant when leaders said there would be a merciless blow in response to any sanctions.

Ri said he couldn't say specifically, but pointed out that North Korea had short- and long-range missiles.

Sawyer asked whether the country's nuclear technology was weaponized and whether it could be loaded on missiles.

He would not say whether he could nuclearize the country's weapons, but said to be assured that the country had the facilities to deliver nuclear weapons.

"North Korea is ready," he said. "

End of Quote.

To read the entire article here is the link.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2585531