A small question group...

[Beprepared]

I'm looking at purchasing a Remington 700, the question is in .308 or .300 Win Mag. This is a 500 yd or more only rifle.

Now I'm down to 5 calibers that I carry, and adding .300 Win Mag might now be bad, as its ONLY for this rifle, but the other part is its ONLY rifle for it.

Now I'm perfectly happy to handload to tolerence 168 or 172 gr .308 loads to go to 1000 yds. But does the .300 Win Mag have an edge over a handload
.308 at that range?

[Ryder]

My question is are YOU able to hit targets out past 500 yards? Can you take the time to practice often enough and shoot enough rounds?

Not to rag you, but I've seen so many people who want a "long" range sniper rifle, but lack the skills to properly use it.

But back to your questions....

Using same 180gr Nosler Partion bullet..

At 500 yards a .308 round will drop 52.4 inches and have 1257 Ft lbs of energy left with a 1774 ft per sec velocity(2620 at muzzle).

The 300 Win Mag will have 42.8 inches of drop at 500yrds, 1426 ft/lbs of energy left with a 1896 ft/sec velocity(2960 at muzzle).

The .300 Win Mag beats the .308 Win, but not by much.

Personally I have the .308. Cost of ammo and the relative ease of getting ammo. I can shoot cheap surplus ammo if I have to and I can shoot more without having my shoulder pounded by the 300 Win Mag.

I also don't plan on shooting out past 500-600 yards. I know that currently it is beyond my skill to make consistent hits and consistency is the name of the game.

[Bidah]

I have to agree with Ryder on this.

If you get to the 800 - 1000 yard range, then you either step up to .30-06 which has just a little bit more, or then up to you 300 Win Mag. Mostly what you are gaining is a little bit less drop, and a bit more impact.

-Bidah

[MrGrey]

what are the odds that you will need to make a 1000 yard shot?

The 300 win mag is no slouch.

Back the odds....

in most self defence events the criminals are idiots at best. In most cases where some one uses a concealed weapon in self defence, the criminal does not hit squat but gets hit.

The reason for that is that the criminal does not practice. The concealed carry permit holder, does. The permit holder, uses tactics thought out in advance. The ciminal does not use well thought out tactics, and when the shooting starts all group team work, goes down the drain along with loyalty. So what does all this mean?

What are the odds that you are going to need to shoot that far? Who or what are you going to be shooting at? If criminal I'm going to bet that they can't hit you at 25 yards if they are out in the open, and your shooting back from cover or moving to cover as you shoot. The number of times this situation has played out is in the tens of thousands per year.

So what does your 308 not do that a criminal is going to be able to do better and from farther?

On the other hand if your expecting some one (or several some ones) with military training who will carry millitary gear, who may need to be turned away, you will need more than a 308 or even a 300 win mag. You may need to get a 50 bmg just to get close to an even footing.

Analyze your needs. Not wants....needs. I don't know who you are or where you are. I can't know your needs. Only you have a chance of doing that. by the same token, there is nothing wrong with having one odd ball rifle for just one purpose. I have no problem with that. You could have several more calibers of ammo to feed your vast stock of arms. What do I care? I have lots of guns. Not all of them are for defence but that doesn't mean I would not use them. Its just not the primary function. Some of them are just for fun. I have a LOT of fun. If your worried about having another one to reload for, don't worry, dies ain't that expensive. So do it if you want. If money is an issue, save up like every one else.

Im not sure I see a reason to do it. I know I don't see a reason not to do it.

[funfaler]

My take on this question, FWIW.

If you are looking at shots out to @600-700 yards, the 308 is a good round for this, with this in mind; If you are going to be carrying a rifle, and you expect bad guys, you will be in deep dudu if you have a 5 round non-detatchable mag.

For my money/behind, I like a 308 semi-auto out to 600-700 yards. This gives me the best coverage out to those ranges, and everything within. A bolt action will really suffer from 300 yards in, do to lack of fire volume, and your gain out at 600-700 is not worth the trade, IMHO.

However, if you are set on shooting "out to 1000 yards", my thought is go real big on the caliber. If you are going to get a dedicated rifle/caliber, then get something that is vastly better than the 308. 300wm would be my minimum caliber for this. 50 BMG would be my first choice, then it can be use to diable zombie busses if need be, or take down a flying saucer.

From the 50 BMG, I would go 407 CheyTac, 338 Lapua, or some sort, that is specific to the long ranges that you are looking at and have the ballistics and punch to make it easier to get there.

A 308 bolt gun will only stretch the 308 100-200 more yards over a semi, shooter having the skill of course.

Shooting beyond 600 yards is much more technical than most folk realize, and while the caliber/rifle may be capable, very few shooters are.

When you realize that less than 1% of American rifle owners know how and are capable of shooting out to 500 yards, those that can go to 800-1000, is maybe 1/5th a percent or less.

Good luck

[MrGrey]

He just confermed the jist of what I said above and he is right.

[Beprepared]

I agree with several of these point you all have made, and I'll try to put this without sounding cocky, I have a 6 year Expert Rifleman badge awarded from the Marines, and was quite happy making 500 yd headshot bets with the range coaches on the issue iron sights with issue ammo. (Green tip 62 gr .223)

What I want is a rifle capable of doing the 600 - 1000 yds. I live in a mountains environ, reload my own, and have daily access to a range. My problem is that its not got the length to shoot that far, all I can do is practice tight groups at 200 yds with it.

I've looked at the 50 BMG, might still go back to it, but I don't have to buy a whole new rig to reload tight handload 308.

I guess I've talked myself into the 700 in .308, or the 40+ lb 50 BMG.

[funfaler]

There have been some good reports on some of the AR 50BMG uppers, they are lighter than a standard 50BMG, so that might be worth looking into. There are several that are true bolt actions, and they can be had for less than 2k, some very near 1k. But the realoading will be a costly capital investment.

BTW, it is not bragging if you can do it, ;)

How many times have you read someone post that they want a 1000 yard rifle, then in the next sentence, state that they don't shoot rifle much, mostly hand gun? Thus the discussion on the shooter's ability, in these kinds of posts.

Happy shooting, and let us know what you decide and how it works out.

[MrGrey]

Barette who makes the 50 bmg, also makes a 338 lapua that looks very similar and works well. Don't know if that would be of interest to you or not, but there is one more option to consider.