Firearm Schools?

[GS Rider]

Do any of you guys have a firearms school that you can recommend? If so what were the pros and cons of that school. And what type of training do you do on your own. Any drills that seem very helpful? I feel the need to add here that while I am a huge believer in DRY PRACTICE I feel a bit closet Rambo when I do it. My dry practice drills are very basic. Mag changes, trigger control sight picture, building clearing and Harries tech. Should I dry practice bounding or some type of Immediate Action drill? Feel free to be brutally honest.

[Bidah]

Well GS, you don't say where you are, and that would help a bit if you want some local training. Of course there are the big places such as Frontsight, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Lethal Force Institute to name a few. I am lucky in that a national trainer has established a school here in Montana, all the way from Virginia. You can check out Pat Goodale at www.pgpft.com if you want. He is first rate, and got the nod from some folks that are in the business that I know.

What you are practicing at home sounds good to me. I never thought about the closet Rambo part, but it doesn't bother me at all. In fact, the kids and I practice clearing the house of monsters now and then. They think it is a neat game.. :)

-Bidah

[GS Rider]

I am in Nevada about 80 miles from Front Sight. I use to hunt down my youngest son(12) in the house with air soft but he got mad at me one time because he hit me and he thought that I should fall down. But I just returned fire like nothing. He felt rippedoff I guess because the one time he gets a good hit and I just kept coming. That wasn't me trying to be an ass, I try to let him win when we compete but in training I was told never stop because your hit or that is what you will do when you apply your training.

[Bidah]

GS, what a location. I have heard lots of good things about Front Sight, but I know it tends to be a bit expensive, even without the travel.

Well my kids are a bit younger than that, even now. We started doing this when they were 3 or 4, as a before bedtime get rid of monsters thing. :)

-Bidah

[MdlMkr 7.62]

I'd like to go to a traing school but I need to stock up on ammo first. The ones I've seen require 1500 rounds of factory loaded ammo for their class. I'm also concerned about the muzzle discipline of my co students. When I took my CCW class there were a few buffoons in the class. I ilike to have fun but I'm serious when it comes to gun safety. Gettin shot aint no fun.

7.62

[colonial shooter]

Has anyone tried the Appleseed program put on by RWVA.org? I've heard that it is pretty good. And, they are supposed to be all over the country

[MdlMkr 7.62]

How about paintball. I've done it a few times - man those balls hurt! Lots of fun, good exercise and practice

7.62

[Bidah]

7.62, paintball is a lot of fun, and good exercise. When we used to play you were limited to 30 in the hopper at any one time, so it made it interesting. Of course I started playing back when you used the small cartridges, and you only had 10 in the single shot. It was a treat when we finally got out pumps.. :)

Colonial.. I have not done the Appleseed shoots, but I have heard a lot of good things about them. Best of all, they are extremely cheap. Of course they are centered around rifles, and long range marksmanship is the goal. I have used the Fred's AQT's before, and they are quite good, and cheap practice. I am going to be going to one here in June, so we shall see. I am still trying to decide between the AR or FAL. The FAL will probably win since the ammo is slightly cheaper.. go figure.

-bidah

[colonial shooter]

The last time I checked ammo prices .223 was a little cheaper per 1000.

I have never tried paintball, although I did pick up a marker last year.:)

[funfaler]

Let me second the motion on the Appleseed Shoots, good training, good people, good program.

It is more focused on well aimed, long range (out to 500+ yards) shooting, but good skills.

Dry firing, mag changes and malfunction drills are very helpful.

I have not been to any of the training schools, the best I can figure, they are heavily designed toward use of carbines(MBC) vs. rifles (MBR). Their ranges are focused in the 50-100, with 300 being the max, run and gun type of action. Any class that has a focus over 200 yards, is a "sniper" course, bolt gun, special equipment and optics. I have yet to find one that has the focus of the Appleseed, which is the utilization of a MBR out to its max effective range.

As a side, if I am going to go throught the $$ and effort to have/carry a MBR, I want to be able to run it to its max range. If I am going to limit myself to less than 300 yards, I am going to carry something light, with a ton of ammo (you are going to need it).

For $70 for a weekend (and 400 rounds), the Appleseed is a great bargain, and a very good primer to let you know if you really want to spend the $$ on a specialized course.

Good luck, and if you go to a school, report back and let us know how it went.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

With the 1500 rounds required by most shooting schools, 7.62 x 39 seems more appealing. I prefer .308 but i don't care to use up all my ammo on training. 7.62 x 39 is running about $160 / 1000 here for Wolf. Plus i don't worry about picking up my empty cases. That said, does anyone know of training here in Michigan or Ohio??

7.62

[GOVT1911]

I've been to a couple of the larget shooting schools, SigArms Academy in NH for their Concealed Carry Instructor's Course and to Frontsight in NV for the 4 day Practical Handgun course.
I'll start with SigArms....Great School, good instruction, very helpful instructors and basically a really good experience. Bank Miller was the head instructor when I went (Nov 02) but I heard he's no longer there. Pretty expensive school, all ammo was included tho. You must stay offsite, as there is no barracks/bunkhouse onsite. We received a package deal with a local bed and breakfast that is set up for the students. I don't recall what we paid for the course as it was paid for by the military.
We shot several hundred rounds a day at their indoor range and shot for a day running scenarios on one of their outdoor ranges. The class was primarily focused on our teaching others the basics so we didn't fire as much as one would in a normal "shooters" course. Well worth my time.

Frontsight. I went with my brother after I got home from my last deployment to Baghdad. (May 05) I found discounted certificates online at www.fscerts.com. I think I paid something like $100 each for the 4 day course. I beleive the course normally ran something like 600??? There is a $50 background check fee for each student, no matter what type of clearances you already posess ;)
We stayed in Pahrump, NV at a local hotel (Holiday Inn, IIRC) It's about a 20min drive to the school from there.
We were required to have 500 rounds each of factory ammo, but could buy it from the onsite shop if we needed. The also offered "rental guns" if you chose not to bring your own, but I beleive it required proir coordination with the school.
The facilities there were adequate. Porto-johns and an air conditioned classroom. Most of the day was spent out on the firing line under overhead cover. VERY hot and a few of the students showed the begininng effects of not drinking enough water or not being acclimated. Since I had just gotten back from Iraq the 100+ temps didn't seem too bad. LOL
The insturctors were very knowledgable and worked well with the students. The focused on the students that needed it while at the same time helped out some of the more experienced shooters improve skills.
I was a bit turned off by the constant marketing of the facility. Lunch was eaten (bring your own) in the AC classroom and there was presentations given a couple times during the 4 days to sell you on the "Frontsight experience". You could eat outside in your car if you chose, but it was easy to just eat and ignore the presentation if you chose to. (think timeshare condo sales pitch kinda presentation)
Like I said, the instruction was very well presented and both my Active Duty Marine brother and I as an Active Duty Army MP learned alot there. I would like to attend one of their carbine courses, but with airfare, hotel, food and all the related stuff it's kinda tough to do on my military pay.

I'd recommend attending as many different shooting courses/school you can. You will ALWAYS learn something to add to your "toolbox". Good schools will teach you good stuff, not-so-good schools will teach you what you probabally don't want to do. LOL

BTW, the BEST handgun instruction I've ever received was given by a small indoor range in Raleigh, NC. The instructor was a guy named "Caz" Castenada and the range was Personal Defensive Handgun and Safety Center (PDHSC) in Raleigh NC. The class was broken down into like 6 different levels and the classes were usually one to two days long and the price was VERY reasonable, around $60-100 each IIRC.

Hope this helps.

[Arizona Highlander]

I contacted Frontsight a while back (just for some info) and have since been deluged with sales pitches, especially for “lifetime memberships” that run for something like $2,000 (considering that Frontsight is currently in litigation that may ultimately close the place down, I’d think twice about that deal). I’ve heard that some of the folks living in the Las Vegas area have taken advantage of it, since they’re close enough to Frontsight to take classes there two or three times a year. For them, the $2,000 lifetime fee might be a good deal.

Frontsight’s ownership group seems a bit kooky, too, as they’re reportedly crazy devotees of the Church of Scientology. Haven’t actually verified that, though - just street talk I’ve heard about the place.

I live just down the way from Gunsite (Paulden, AZ) but have only taken a weekend class there. Seemed cool and professional, and the only sales crap they ever send me is a new Gunsite calendar every December (which is actually kinda nice). Gunsite has a rep for being a bit stodgy, though - still hung up on doctrinaire 1911 pistol and Weaver stance theory from the ‘70’s (though they’ve lightened up a bit on the 1911 - I saw that their Pro Shop had lots of leather for Glocks and SIGs). Heaven help you, though, if you show up there with a 9mm - unless it’s mandatory department issue and you have no choice in the matter!

[funfaler]

With the 1500 rounds required by most shooting schools, 7.62 x 39 seems more appealing. I prefer .308 but i don't care to use up all my ammo on training. 7.62 x 39 is running about $160 / 1000 here for Wolf. Plus i don't worry about picking up my empty cases. That said, does anyone know of training here in Michigan or Ohio??

7.62


Quite a few of the smaller schools will come to you with 8-12 students.

The Appleseed will come to you if you can get them a place to hold it, and at only $70 for the weekend, not too hard to get a bunch of people. And for the Appleseed, you only NEED a 25 meter range, longer is nice, but not needed.

If you have several guys that want in on training, this might be the route to go. $70 for the weekend for Appleseed, some of the others will do it for $400 for a weekend class. All of them provide instructors and material if required.

Good luck

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Appleseed sounds like a good place to start.

7.62

[colonial shooter]

FF, where is the closest Appleseed to SE Michigan.
? I know there is one in WI but is there one closer?

[MdlMkr 7.62]

I'd like it if there were a training program / school in the S.E. Mich / North Ohio area. I don't want to drive to AZ to go to a school. Driving across the country with a rifle in the trunk seems like a bad idea

7.62

[funfaler]

CS and all,

I looked at the 2007 Appleseed Schedule http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=1385.0.

It looks like the closest Appleseed to SE Michigan, is the one I am hosting, in Carrollton, Kentucky. It would be @ a 5 hour drive from Detroit, just 50 minutes out of Cincinatti, going toward Louisville.

There is one in Evensville, IN, and will be another in Kentucky, Morehead I believe.

Sounds like you guys in Michigan need to get together and host one (or car pool to my place), it is easy and fun. Contact the folks at the link above if you think you might want to.

You are all welcome at my place, just a quick weekend trip, free camping, all the targets you can shoot, free T-shirt, and we will even let you take your brass home if you want.

Be good to see ya there.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

And it's NOT the same weekend as Knob Creek so the schedules don't conflict. Looks like me and my wife are going. Anyone else?

7.62

[Bidah]

A few of us are going to the one in Montana in June. Not anywhere near KY or WI though.. :)

-Bidah

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Where is the FAL shoot this year?

7.62

[Rawles]

I can personally vouch for Front Sight. The Memsahib and I both attended the Four Day Defensive Handgun course, and it was great. Yes, the courses there are expensive, but they are definitely worth it. BTW, one way to save on the cost of your first course is to shop around for a Front Sight "gray" course certificate. (They are transferable, and are often auctioned /sold for less than $250 each. That sure beats paying $1,600 for the same course. Just do a web search on "Front Sight Certificates.")

I haven't attended any of the Appleseed shoots, but from I've heard from SurvivalBlog readers, they are a tremendous training opportunity for the money. See www.rwva.org for details.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Looking forward to the Appleseed course in Kentucky in April.

7.62 :cool:

[Arizona Highlander]

If you go, please let us all know how the "Appleseed" event was.

There was a thread in FAL Files that really slammed "Fred" (sponsor of the Appleseeds).

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171595

(Note: You may need to sign in to FAL Files to read it).

After reading the above thread, the "Appleseeds" didn't look very promising to me. But, maybe things are better now?

[funfaler]

Just read the thread that you posted, intersting, albeit one sided. There was a "Fred's" article in the Shot Gun News about what happened at the range, I found it interesting, and I can see where there might be some bitterness.

As the Appleseed program and the training, I have found it to be very helpful. I went to the Evensville, IN shoot last Spring. The instruction was very good (the instructor that I had there is the "shoot boss" for the shoot I am hosting). The program is a Non profit 501c3 organization, and at $70 for the weekend, I see little chance for any "profiteering". They have offered to pay for the use of the land, porta johns, range set up, they provide the targets, instructors and anything else that is needed to make the shoot happen. Kids under 21 shoot free as well as active military and elected officials. I have a difficult time seeing this as a "criminal" activity.

I have met Jack/Fred. He has a very dry humor and he is serious about the Second Amendment. I doubt he would be my first choice for a beer buddy, but the RWVA has some very good people involved, doing very good work.

I can honestly say that spending the $70 for the weekend is a good deal, heck, you even get a T-shirt.

[GS Rider]

While Jack/Fred may be a crook ect. What is the alternative? If he is still the best thing out there for that price then I would recommend the school. I could say that Front sight is also run by a nut. But if the training is worth it to you then why not take a class? just because you take classes from him doesn't mean that you agree or support him. I have had many teachers that I didn't agree with but you just learn what they have to say and move on.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

I'll say it again..... We're all here cause we aint all there (quote from Jimmy Buffet).

Most of us here are gun cranks. I would assume the guy running the Appleseed program is a gun crank too or he'd be doing something else like collecting trains. It sounds like a wonderful opportunity to learn some new skills and hang out with other gun cranks for 2 days. At $35 per day I don't see this as a big money making venture - more of a labor of love for the organizers. As for the instructor's dry sense of humor, I want to learn from him not move in with him.

My friend Jim used to say " you can learn something from everyone you ever meet. Some people will teach you how to be and other people will teach you how not to be".

" That's all I got to say about dat"

7.62

[OREGON FAL'ER]

These guys are real good. I've taken a few of their courses. They are john Farnham, Clint Smith based.

http://www.oregonfirearmsacademy.com/

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Too bad they're so far away from Michigan. :mad:

7.62 :cool:

[OREGON FAL'ER]

Too bad they're so far away from Michigan. :mad:

7.62 :cool:
Yeah that'd be a deal killer for me too.