Para or Fixed FAL

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Just picked up a Century L1A1 and want to upgrade it. what are your opinions of the Para vs the fixed stock FAL's?

[Dr. X]

"Carbine mentality" prevails these days and I ain't buyin' it. The whole reason I got my FAL was to be able to reach out and f*ck someone at a distance that mouseguns or AK's can't reach. I ain't cuttin' the barrel off so I can have a clunky version of an AK. Sure, it ain't light, but big whoop. It's a BATTLE rifle. It's supposed to be heavy. The weight increases my confidence, because I know I'm packin' as big a charge as anybody else and bigger than most. (Anybody who owns a Barrett can STFU...:D ) Anyway, I guess you can tell I'm gonna say...KEEP IT FULL-LENGTH!!! ;)

as ever,
Dr. X :cool:

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Dr X,

It's an IMBEL upper. Do you know if a metric lower will fit on it? The bolt has the sand cuts in it so I understand that it's an "english" bolt. Any suggestions on how to outfit are appreciated.

[Arizona Highlander]

Just my 2-cents here, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. :D

Although the FAL “Para” stocks look way-cool, I found them to be REALLY uncomfortable. Even though the ones I’ve seen came equipped with some flimsy foam padding, it was still impossible for me to get a proper cheek weld with those things.

So, make sure you try one out first, to be sure you really dig it before you buy it. “Para” folding stocks can be rather expensive.

Unlike Dr. X, I’m not that anti-short barrel FAL. My ambition (when my finances become a bit more rosy) is to build a short-barreled FAL with wood Israeli furniture. I’ve already got the Imbel kit, and the wood Izzy furniture . . . all I need now is a receiver, and a gunsmith to trim and crown the Imbel barrel. Maybe next year!

An Imbel upper receiver *should* work just fine with a metric lower. And, while
Dr. X might know more about this than I do, I hear that the inch bolt carriers (which come with the very desirable sand cuts) should work okay in a metric Imbel FAL.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Thanks for the input Highlander. Although the Para stocks look cool I'm inclined to stay with the fixed stock after hearing your and Dr X's replies. I'm also a shorter barrel fan (18" +/-). If you were in the Michigan area I'd help you out with the barrel cut off and recrown.

[Dr. X]

An Imbel upper receiver *should* work just fine with a metric lower. And, while
Dr. X might know more about this than I do, I hear that the inch bolt carriers (which come with the very desirable sand cuts) should work okay in a metric Imbel FAL...

To my limited knowledge, AZ Highlander has it on the money as far as receivers go...I have both styles of bolt carrier and both work in my Rhodie, but I like the looks of the non sand-cut better. (Just an aesthetics thing...)
Matter of fact, that's what it boils down to anyway as far as I'm concerned. The FAL is a tool. What are you gonna use it for? Decide that and factor in what you like in the looks department and outfit yer FAL accordingly...For example, My R1A1 came with a picaninny (I know I spelt it wrong but I hate them thangs) top cover and it ruined the looks IMO. I sold it and replaced it with an HK dust cover. I also traded out my bolt carrier from the sand-cut to non. I changed my STG 58 handguards for a set of triangular Imbels, as my barrel wasn't bipod-cut. I added a DSA muzzlebrake just because I hated the crowned barrel with no muzzle device. Once again, it just didn't look right to me. Now it looks like it rolled outta Rhodesia back in the late 70's, which is exactly the look I was trying to achieve. What matters most is what looks/feels/works best for YOU...;)

as ever,
Dr. X :cool:

[GUN SNOB]

The $64 question is ' Do you need a folding stock? Will it serve you any purpose or is it just a cool thing?

I don't knock the cool thing and it can be reason enough.

IMHO my sexiest Fal type is my SLR (L1A1) with all wood. (factory with US prts)

I put Izzy wood on my carbine (cuz it looks cool) but now its as heavy as my SLR. So it is going on a plastic diet. (Brit pebble forearm, Saw butt) I thought about a folder but just don't see any advantage for me and dought I would like the cheek weld.

In case I ever do convoy work or want a Fal under my jacket I am building a Fal pistol W/ 11.5 barrel. I lose a lot of the 308 advantage but its bite is still worse than its bark. (It dose bark)

[NineseveN]

IMHO, fixed stocks are much better in terms of handling and comfort, Para's are neat looking, and some people fire them comfortably, but if it's your only FAL, I'd say put a humpback stock on it and call it a day.

As for shorter bbls, 16" is just too much noise and blast for me...but 18" is about the sweet spot for .308 in a battle rifle. if you cut it, cut it to that and no shorter. Just my opinion though. I love my 18" FAL.

[GS Rider]

The Para stock works for me but the regular solid stock is better. I converted a Para back to a solid stock because it seems to work better and feel better. I still have one Para left but if I could only have one FN FAL it would be a Congo type. That is a short barrel with solid stock. One question to ask is are you going to use this weapon from in a closed in space like a car? If so the folding stock may be the only way to go. Even entering and exiting doorways can be funny with a full size rifle like a FN. You may want to train in a few practical exercises with the rifle as is and then cut down the barrel as needed. You can always cut the barrel down but it is a lot harder to put the pieces back on. A couple of things to try out would be to have someone drive down a dirt road with you and the rifle in the passenger seat and when the vehicle stops jump out to the closest cover. No shooting is required here you are just working on speed and technique. Speed this up a little every time and this will give you an idea of your weapons handling in and around cars. Also try to clear your house with the FN again NO SHOOTING is required here as you are just trying to practice entering rooms quickly and using cover and concealment. When you dry practice never have a loaded mag close by or even in the same room. Your muscle memory may kick in and load your weapon without you realizing it. Once you feel confident that you have the perfect set up for yourself then compete in a 3 gun match or take a rifle class and see what worked and what didn't then build off of that. And make sure you DRY PRACTICE about 10 minutes a day when you have time it makes a huge difference.

[Dr. X]

Great advice, GSRider! I always carry the Rhodie when I walk my perimeter each night. It builds the stamina needed to tote the beast on a regular basis. Also teaches how hard it is to move out a trail quietly, in the dark, carrying yer rifle. When I feel REALLY froggy, I make the walk with my full combat load. GAWD! Gettin' old definitely ain't fer sissies...But I think handling yer rifle regularly, just toting it and learning to move with it, indoors and out, is a skill that can't be worked on enough...;)

as ever,
Dr. X :cool:

[archy]

So far as 7,62 NATO rifles go, my point of view is this:

If you need a good one, get a FAL, particularly if your ammunition supply may include a diet of other than straight US-issue M80 ball [surplus 7,62, commercial .308, reloads, specialty ammo] and keep it as close to as-issued military configuration as possible. Get plenty of magazines. Get enough ammo for both storage and practice. And get some more magazines.

If you need a telescope-sighted rifle: get a M14 or M1A semiauto equivalent, and scope it instead. The M14 is already drilled and grooved for a scope mount, is an excellent performer in Match or M21 configuration, and any shortage of magazines as a result of weight, availability or circa $30-each cost are offset by the happy thought that each round is going to be VERY carefully delivered. In the event the scope breaks or fogs, it's still a very credible rifle with the iron sights, and if a bolt roller fractures or an extractor chips away [you do have extras, don't you?] ammo meant for the M14/M1A will work in your FAL, while the vise-versa may not be so.


And if you have a real need for a folding or collapsing stock rifle and it really has to be a 7,62 [my under-the-truck-seat gun is a folding stock shotgun because I like folding stocks less on rifles than I do on shotguns...and I'd rather be stuck with a floppy-stock scattergun than on a rifle, so having a shotgun so configured makes me more likely to grab my rifle if it's a choice between one of the two.] A better answer is the H&K 91, SAR3 or Portugese XG3 or one of the current PTR clones, so equipped. Centerfire Systems in Kentucky offers their G3/HK91 Collapsible Stock package for $140, and I doubt you can set up a FAL folder for that.

In short: H&K if you need a folder, M1A in you need a scope, FAL if you just want to get the job done.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

After reading the replies to my query, I think I'll go with the fixed stock. On that note, does anyone have a favorite fixed stock?

7.62

[NineseveN]

Penguin Humpback is my personal fixed FAL stock.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Thanks NineseveN. I'll Google it!

[GUN SNOB]

I like the SAW stock. It is BUTT UGLY, destroys the lines of a beautiful firearm, IT also dose not seem as 'heavy duty as a Imbel or pebble grain stock. But it fits me well and I like the little flip up wire thing. Many disogree

Second choice would be a Hump back (metric) thow I do like the feel of wood.

If you have a inch lower these do not fit. On the Inch lower you are limited to factory wood, Pebble grain (plastic) or Iron Wood (co. name, US made). There was a US made plastic (Century or Tapco???) I tried one and returned it. You can fit a X stock (DSA) but it is a project. Possibly others.

There may be more, these are all I know of.

You mentioned a metric lower I have one (Imbel) with Imbel stock that I plan to be selling. PM if you are interested and I can give you the details. Unless you do not like the PG or stock you have I would say the change is not necessary.

[GUN SNOB]

If it is a Centry build check your parts count. I do not know from first hand but think a US stock may be part of it. You need 7 US parts if you have a Muzzle device, 6 with out. A FAL has 17 EVIL parts.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

The upper is a Century / Imbel. Will a metric lower fit it? I like the DSA lower with the M16 A2 sight on it. The Lower on the gun has a flip up rear sight that is a POS. Looks like this may be more interesting than I first thought but I can't say I'm dissappointed! I'll have a awesome rifle that I built up MYSELF when I'm done!!

Keep the suggestions coming and thank you to everyone who's contributing!

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Found another Century - Imbel at a different Fun Shop today. Maybe I'll do one as a folder and one as a fixed - or not. I'd like to handle a folder before i plunk down my hard earned $$. Especially after reading the input to my query. Any way, I'll have twins - if not identical.

7.62

[FREE RIFLEMAN]

I loaded down my MBR 21" Metric FAL with a hell of an upgrade:
Kaiserworks VLOPSI hardened aluminum lower (for M16A2 rear sight capability)
MAGPUL SPR
Arms #22H Rings... still waiting....
IOR Valdada M1 4x24 CQB Reticule BDC to 1000 yds

I reduced the weight by about a pound nearest I can tell.

You can now do the same thing for half of what I paid:
DSA Hampton Lower (http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=US061A2H)

MAGPUL SPR for FAL (http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70_88_114&products_id=251)

The truck gun is another VLOPSI FAL with the ACE AK folder, M16A2 rear sight, Rail Forend w/ Surefire and Arms see-through mount under the EOTech 552 (It helps when things go bump in the night...) for AN-PVS-14. It got heavier... Weighs a tad bit more than the Border Patrol M-4 setup... only bigger.

[GS Rider]

I like the KISS principal on all of my stuff. I have a short barrel FN with Penguin Humpback stock. I also use a US pistol grip that blocks the selector from moving to full auto position and PARA rear sight. I also have a Century L1A1 on a metric upper with a carbine type barrel. That stock is a L1A1 wood stock with standard IZZY rear sight. Century rifles can be good just be careful to inspect it before plopping down the money.. I have several and all are fine. Some people may try to talk you out of using the FN but that is what I use as well as 90 countries so it can't be all bad. And as far as using a G3 clone with any kind of folding stock you should train with one for a weekend. If you like it then you are a better man than I am. I had to switch out stock sets and went with a Namibian stock that looks like a FN humpback stock just to be somewhat comfortable. Also some people complain that they can't get comfortable with a FN folding stock but I haven't noticed this so you may want to try a folder out and see what you think. If you go with a metric lower use the US grip that blocks the selector for 10 bucks at the Files. Also I like the metric cocking handle that is just a knob. I use that to release the bolt on a new mag instead of the bolt release. Only training and competition will tell you what the best set up is for you and your rifle. And as far as long range shooting goes the FN can hit out at long range but how are you going to justify that in a survival scenario? So while the M1a and AR10 may be more accurate at long distance, run through real life practicals or 3 gun matches. the FN can hang with the best of them and show the difference between a target shooter and a practical shooter.

[FREE RIFLEMAN]

7.62, I cannot preach enough on that A2 rear sight. The epitome occurred when I went to my first Appleseed thinking it was going to be another easy day at the range... I've had so many. I believed highly in a FAL that printed close to MOA with Port in a rest after I built it , so why all of a sudden was it not behaving? I always scored Expert in the Army, so this day was a humiliating reminder... so much so that I keep the targets to remind me what my April 19th, 1775 would have looked like.

So far, everything is on track, when my massive M-80 ball reload project gets rolling (still buying fast-moving components and tumbling brass) I am eager to see what comes of my near $700 conversion to an already $1200 gun. Everything looks like it will be a great shooter, but the proof is on April 19th. I'm working up a load with surplus H4895 this weekend. 44gr - 1.5 grains = 42.5 for Lake City wall thickness. I'm wanting 2800 fps on the chrono, but whichever load (41.0, 41.5, 42.0, 42.5, 43.0) performs in a rest at 100, 200, 300, and 400 yds will be "the load" I crank out 5000 rounds of.

I never liked the rear sight, and I wish DSA had that lower when I began my quest for a rear sight solution 18 plus months ago.:rolleyes:

[MdlMkr 7.62]

I want one!

Thanks for the tip

7.62

[FREE RIFLEMAN]

I want one!

Thanks for the tip

7.62

I must say, several of us are undergoing the mod. I sold 1 FAL to pay for it on the other two and now the lower can be had for $200 (DSA backorder - big surprise!). I like KW and the VLOPSI is fantastic, it just cost me a serious bundle getting there.

I am working on a co-worker's FAL and he is on-board with the DSA lower as well as another fellow Filer close by. I am chomping at the bit to fire it, but I cannot justify sending now $400 Port downrange just to satisfy my giddiness. Once I have my loads established and tested, I will be very happy. Every night, when everyone goes to bed, and I have nothing more to post, I retrieve my newly evolved MBR from the safe and I practice my NPOA standing, seated, and prone. I am tempted to try out a NM rear aperature once I start cranking out some rounds I can reload.

I hope this helps, as irritated as I get with DSA for screwing KW over and having piss-poor service, I think it is the best available option and cost-effective.

I was flamed twice in the FAL Files for saying so, but the A2 sight is what the FAL should have had all along. Since the world isn't really free, perhaps we need to live up to the name we keep calling it someday. :)

[MdlMkr 7.62]

I like the Para rear sight from DSA. The one with the A2 windage knob and the 2 sight apertures. I emaed them and they said it would work with the L1A1 front sight height. Cool!

7.62

[Beprepared]

I'm encouraged that Dr X mentions his FAL was a R1A1. Century Arms Sporterized version, that he modified, cause thats what I'm working with here.

Para looks cool, Para is neat to show to your friends, but para sucks ass when you try to shoot it accurately.

End of discussion.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Yeah, the rear sight I ordered form DSA has been backordered too. I wish they had told me before they shipped the rest of my order witha note that the sight was unavailable. :eek:

Oh Well........

7.62 :cool:

[NineseveN]

Yeah, the rear sight I ordered form DSA has been backordered too. I wish they had told me before they shipped the rest of my order witha note that the sight was unavailable. :eek:

Oh Well........

7.62 :cool:

They do that quite often, in fact, they did that to me with the exact same item.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

I guess it's a small market and they're the big player so they can get away with being like that. I'll look for other options before I order from them again.

7.62 :rolleyes:

[GySgt D]

I've had a folding stock on one of my other rifles for about fifteen years now, and have never once had a need for that feature.

They look neat, but are uncomfy as all get out IMHO.

I don't care much for the concept of chopping down the barrel, either. If I wanted a more compact package (and the anemic cartridge that usually goes along with it), I'd stick with my poodle shooters.

By the same token, I'm not overly excited about AR-15's being built in 6.8 or .308, either. If I wanted adequate power, I'll grab a FAL :)

My apologies in advance for the smarty-pants tone of this post. I'm typing rather quickly.... Got a wedding to go to (not mine).

[GySgt D]

They do that quite often, in fact, they did that to me with the exact same item.

+1

I was greatly annoyed when their website took my order, but gave me no indication that the part wasn't available. It took exactly two months to show up on my door! Some of the smaller parts have yet to be received; four months later.

Did I mention that they didn't even find it necessary to give me so much as an email telling me of the backorder status?

Greatly annoyed with them about that, but they are like my crack dealer... Can't get enough.