Convoys (this might be stupid, lol)

[SwampFox320]

Hey everyone. I was just thinking, in a SHTF/urban unrest situation, how might one go about moving multiple vehicles from one place to another. If I have to bug out, I have a friend that's nice enough to take me and my family in so we can all work together but getting from where we live to their house is a 45 minute trip on a good day. So, we'd take about 3 vehicles and drive there. My concern is the convoy getting broken up or vehicles getting attacked (ok, no joke, where we live is one of the deadliest cities, gangs are like small armies here and I have a feeling, like everyone else, thing's are going to be really ugly here). Any tips or is it as simple as just riding each others bumpers and have weapons showing? This is why this thread might be stupid cause the answer could be reallllllly simple.

Anyway, thanks!
Jason

[sparkky]

probably the best advice and the hardest to follow would be to not wait too long to get on the road and knowing WHEN to get on the road.
you can always come back in a day or two if it's a false alarm but you may not be able to leave by waiting a day or two to know FOR SURE the "balloon has went up".

[GOVT1911]

There's too many variables to go into here, i.e. any "hardened" vehicles? # friendlies w/weapons? type? what's the threat? on and on....
but for "basic" civil unrest, I'd go basically with what you've talked about. Keep the vehicles fairly close (don't want to be so far apart that badguys can enter/block part of convoy yet not so close that you rearend one of your own vehicles and put yourself out of commission) I'd put my heaviest/strongest vehicle in front to try to push thru any obstacles (lots of rioters use dumpsters set on fire for obstacles, which is actually pretty easy to push out of the way with your bumper if ya hit it SLOWLY so you don't damage your radiator. Scary looking, but not much of a real obstacle) If the road is blocked with vehicles parked across the road, push thru at the junction of 2 vehicles, not center mass of one. Again, don't RAM it at speed as you'll just disable your own vehicle, push thru slow, like 5 MPH if possible.
Also, if you can, crosslevel your supplies between all vehicles, that way if you lose one vehicle, you don't lose all of a certain supply i.e. if all your food is in one rig and it goes down, you're gonna get hungry.
If you have a pickup, consider using it for trail (rear) vehicle. If one of the preceeding rigs goes down it'll be easier to just jump in the back or chuck the gear from the down rig into the bed of the pickup "recovery vehicle".
Comms are just about a must have. CB, FRH, even cell phones. Gotta know what's up with the others in your party.

Lots more info, but this is just off the top of my head. HTH

[Dr. X]

I'm a lone wolf and don't do well in groups. Although the information above is valid, I personally feel that a convoy is a death trap. Your speed would depend on the lead vehicle and if something blocked the way, well, we've all seen enough Wagon Train episodes to know what happens next...:(

as ever,
Dr. X :cool:

[SwampFox320]

Thanks for the info! Great tips. Sadly no, hardened vehicles but we do have a pickup so that's a good things The threat, I think, would just be gangs, same old urban crap. But thanks again for the info!

Jason

[witchdoctor]

If the road is blocked with vehicles parked across the road, push thru at the junction of 2 vehicles, not center mass of one. Again, don't RAM it at speed as you'll just disable your own vehicle, push thru slow, like 5 MPH if possible.HTH

I would recommend a push bumper / bumper guard for the main bug-out vehicle. Also, when pushing larger objects like cars, if time and space permits use the rear of the vehicle to push with!!! You can drive without taillights, but not without a radiator.

As for traveling in convoys, well I have mixed feelings. I have a friend and once I get to him were are going to take both of our vehicles until one runs out of fuel or is damaged beyond use. I have the large vehicle and will most likely take point, his Jeep Cherokee is smaller and if I can fit through, I know he can. On the other hand, it is easier to ambush two vehicles because you cannot evade as quickly and easily. Also, your personnel are split up and if something does happen you have to take time to move supplies to the other vehicle.

[GOVT1911]

There are pros and cons for traveling in "convoy". I like the plan for many reasons, one of the most important to me is redundancy. Like I posted earlier, with 2 or 3 vehicles there is a backup if one goes down for whatever reason and I beleive that 2 trucks half full would be more mobile than one overloaded.

On the "breaching" obstacles, like someone else posted, ya want to avoid it if possible, but there are good and bad ways to go about it. Pushing with the rear of the vehicle if possible is a good idea. Also, if you have to push a vehicle out of the way, try to push on the end opposite the engine i.e. back side of a pickup or the front side of a rear engine car. Less mass to try to pivot around.
In alot of civil distrubances I've seen, both on the news and in person, people use trash dumpsters lit on fire to block roads. Like I said earlier, they look pretty intimidating but are really not that big of an obstacle as long as they arn't full of rocks, dirt or other really heavy junk.

The biggest con I can see of traveling in multiple vehicles is fuel usage and comms between vehicles.

this is a good topic to bounce around. I really like to hear other's plans and learn from others ideas/experiences.

[AndyC]

Ok, I'm going to post some info here on convoy-ops in a few hours once I get home from work, but please bear in mind that most of this stuff will assume that:

1. You're in a war-zone and may come under fire - call it TEOTWAWKI if you prefer.
2. You have trained people who all know their duties.

I mention that because I don't want people to criticize and waste my time by going "Boo, that's just Rambo shit" or whatever.

[tedbo]

Andy,I wouldn't criticize you 'cause you been there,done that!Only criticizin'I be doin' is you hangin' out wit dem "Thugs!":p

[AndyC]

So that everyone is on the same page, a briefing should be given before any convoy departure - this is along the lines of what we used, but feel free to make use of what you can and ditch the rest.

The following items will be covered during convoy briefings:

1. SITUATION
a. Enemy
b. Friendly
(1) Higher – Military, Police, etc
(2) Adjacent – Other convoys
(3) Supporting – Foreign forces
c. Weather
d. Terrain – Main routes, alternates and offroad if necessary

2. MISSION
a. Destination
(1) Distance
(2) Route and condition (red, amber, green)
(3) Danger areas
(4) Checkpoints
(5) Rally points – RV1, RV2, RV3, etc

3. EXECUTION
a. Vehicle and personnel readiness
(1) Organization and order of march (convoy formation layout)
(2) Rules of Engagement
(3) Fire Support Plan
(4) Routes
(5) Personnel assignments and responsibilities
(6) Communications check
(7) Tactics briefing
(a) Start Point (SP) / Release Point (RP)
(b) Checkpoints
(c) Rally points
(d) Route marking - GPS
(e) Rate of movement
(f) Distance between vehicles
(g) Vehicle light setting for night movement
(h) Timeline
(i) Actions at destination
(j) Halt procedures
(k) Anticipated choke points

b. Action on enemy contact (aka contact-drills or IADs)
(1) Ambush
(2) Engagement
(3) Explosive attack
(4) Indirect fire (artillery / mortar attack)
(5) Dead driver scenario
(6) Suspected improvised explosive devices

c. Contingencies
(1) Vehicle breakdowns and recovery
(2) Vehicle accidents
(3) Lost vehicles
(4) Obstacles and obstructions

4. ADMINISTRATION AND LOGISTICS
a. Headcount accountability procedures
b. Fuel consumption rates (by vehicle type) / refueling procedures
c. Maintenance / servicing / recovery of vehicles
d. Casualty / medical handling procedures
e. Safety

5. COMMAND AND SIGNAL
a. Thuraya, other satellite and cell phones
(1) Preprogrammed emergency numbers
b. Radios
(1) Frequencies
(2) Call signs
(3) Batteries
c. Signals
(1) Day: visual / hand and arm signals
(2) Night: I.R / Chem-Lites / strobes
d. Command and control
(1) Chain of command
(2) Succession of command
(3) Location of key personnel


Contingency Plan:
A contingency plan, consisting of five points, will be given to the senior site representative not traveling in the convoy prior to the convoy’s departure. This will aid in maintaining accountability and executing recovery operations should the convoy fail to arrive at its destination or fail to return to the site at the proper time. As soon as the convoy arrives at its destination, the convoy commander will call site personnel and notify them of arrival time. Prior to returning to home station, the convoy commander will call site personnel and inform them of the intended time of departure, estimated time of arrival at destination, alternate route (if used), and accurate accountability of personnel and equipment. If the convoy is unable to depart at the prescribed time, the convoy commander will call site personnel and inform them of the delay. The contingency plan will, as a minimum, consist of the following:

Ø Where the convoy is going and estimated time of arrival.
Ø A manifest of all personnel by name, and the number of vehicles in the convoy.
Ø The length of time the convoy will be gone and the estimated time of return.
Ø What actions the site should take if the convoy does not return by the stated time, and what actions the convoy will take if it cannot return by the stated time.
Ø Time hack and back brief.


Bear in mind that the above briefing does not cover the specific use of weapons, specific tactics or specific techniques of personnel/equipment transfer between a disabled vehicle and a covering vehicle - it merely indicates what factors should be considered and planned-for before moving out in convoy.

Edit: Might be interesting to teach you guys contact-drills sometime. When a vehicle is disabled for whatever reason, who goes where and which vehicles go where while under attack - it's not as simple as you might think. Hmmmm....

[nightfighter4d]

As to how to do it, That is up to you, The keys here are front and rear security, Commo, a planned route with ACE(Alternate, Contingency, and Emergency ) route plan. Also you need to conduct rehearsals of all from time to time and walk through your contingency plans. As a scout it is far easier to go around an obstacle than through it. Plan an alternate route.

Also a willingness and a display of force is a must dependent on the social situation. So if not called for don't show the guns such as hurricane evac. With TEOTWAWKI definitely don't be afraid to go armed / showing.

[NineseveN]

Thanks for the info! Great tips. Sadly no, hardened vehicles but we do have a pickup so that's a good things The threat, I think, would just be gangs, same old urban crap. But thanks again for the info!

Jason

The only safe convoy is the one that no one knows or cares about...leave early.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

U.S. army and the contractors in hot zones travel in convoys - fast. Strength in numbers...

Pick your routes and the times to travel as best you can.

[SwampFox320]

Thanks for info guys! Great lessons and ideas. Keep'em coming!

Jason

[archy]

A lot's going to depend on how early in the furball you hit the road. Early in [or better, well before] most of the serious trouble has become obvious or *tripwire* events make it clear that it's not the Bad Time, it may well be better to head seperately for a previously designated common roundezvous or rally point where the decision will be made to move on to even more relatively safe pastures, wait it out right where you're at and await any latecomers or strays yet to make it, or slowly dribble back homeward as things wind down....if they've really wound down.

A lot of rural or small town dwellers are probably about as well off right where they're at, maybe *doubling up* family groups from seperate locations to common ones, as much to share resources and info, but to provide common security if necessary. Those in larger cities may be smarter to get out of Dodge while the getting is good, before roadblocks go up or interchanges gridlock withb stalled or disabled vehicles.

And if there is a long-distance run to a retreat or shared location, *somebody* has to get there first and determine that it's safe. A convoy group has the advantage of having scouts or frointrunners out, and offering a tow or ride should a breakdown hit one vehicle. Those travelling on their own would be SOL. And while on the road, night laagers can allow drivers to pull maintenance while *reverse cycle* passengers can pull night watch duties.

A lot depends on how much of a head start a group gets, and how far they have to go. And whether things stay fairly constant during the trip, or deteriorate along the way. There's no one set of rules about such possibilities, only general liklihoods.

[Barbcue]

probably the best advice and the hardest to follow would be to not wait too long to get on the road and knowing WHEN to get on the road.
you can always come back in a day or two if it's a false alarm but you may not be able to leave by waiting a day or two to know FOR SURE the "balloon has went up".


Now thats some,, DAMM GOOD advice right there..

go with your gut..even if your wrong the first time

Hell, if its that bad maybe practice that drive once in awhile plan it road wise..
make sure everyone "gets use" to the possiblity..
they may think your crazy..But your not ..

[MdlMkr 7.62]

"go with your gut..even if your wrong the first time"

Think long think WRONG. GO with your gut feeling. Good advice IMO

7.62

[bsdmon]

Just get a bunch of suburbans mount some 1919a4's with crankfires on em. Everyone pack an ak to bumpfire. And it'll be ok. and wear helmets? heh.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

Anyone have the new(er) run flat tires?

7.62

[MiamiARFan]

Seems to be pretty much a consensus. A convoy can be workable if you leave soon enough to beat the masses. Here in South Florida, the options are even more limited by the fact that we really don't have good East/West evacuation routes. The major North/South corridors will be massed with refugees trying to get somewhere/anywhere making the road conditions quickly impassable.

We're going to have to watch the sit reps very closely to try and make the call on bailing out. For most situations, I'd prefer to try and bug in. But down here, once that decision is made, there is probably no chance to change your mind.

[MdlMkr 7.62]

I feel fer ya down there in FLA. There is nowhere easy to evacuate to and the interstates would be severely clogged in the event of an emergency. It could be worse, you cuold be in Kommiefirnia. Leave early is your best bet

7.62

[Beprepared]

Its been a long time since this thread was posted, but I'll throw my two abe Lincolns in the fire.

My family uses a 2-3 truck setup, the lead vehicle is enormous has the widest footfrint (if it can fit everyone else can) and a 1000lbs of homemade welded steel on the front (we tell people we got tired of the deer bending up the lightweight "bushguards). Obviously this is the breach vehicle, it runs large (30+ gallon) tanks because the V-10 drinks gas. 4x4 is a must.:D

Second vehicle is either a Ramcharger or Jeep Cheeroke. Large with lighter weight bumpers, for passengers and gear.

If the third is needed, its a Dodge pickup (same engine as Ramcharger for parts backup)

Personally I'd pack the outsides of the pickups with food/bulk items to stop potential projectiles from entering the "passenger" area of the bed.

One final point, find an EVOC class in your area (Emergency Vehicles Operation Certification) and take it, you don't have to pass, but it will teach you a thing or two about defensive highspeed driving. Ask your local FD , PD or Ambulance service for information.

[Jonas Parker]

I'd recommend a few "dry runs" with maps. Mark off obvious places where an ambush could occur, alternate routes, meeting places if your convoy has to scatter, etc. Each vehicle should carry towing equipment should another break down, and antifreeze and "Stop-Leak" should a radiator get punctured. It might be easier to tow a disabled vehicle out than to transfer cargo and abandon it, with the additional advantage that the towed vehicle's salvagable parts and fuel won't be lost.

The "dry runs" will also give you a handle on fuel consumption if you fill-up immediately befor you leave and again immediately upon arrival to your destination.