Survival Meds for your family

[Jonas Parker]

I've been working on a med kit for some 30 years, tweaking it and re-tweaking it on the assumption that in a SHTF scenario I will be the main medical care provider for my family, and probably the neighborhood as well. I'm an old EMT-A (yeah, I know, there's no such thing as an "EMT-A" anymore) with a military medical background. I'd be interested in knowing how others like me are prepairing for the time when "Where There Is No Doctor" won't just be the title of a book. Ideas, please.

[Beepy]

I go with a large stock of NSAIDs, along with everything you would find in a crash cart (get them at work when the cart expires....) Small wound repair, sutures, xylocain (that has come in handy a time or two) usually your doc can get you a script. I know you can order things like ascherman (sp?) chest seals and intubation kits in the Galls catalog. I basically have a big EMT duffel, then lots of extras like bulk gauze, a pretty decent microscope I got at my college's surplus sale awhile back, updated PDR and the PDR of herbal meds. I am looking for some old school syringes that you can autoclave and re-sharpen (you can autoclave stuff in a pressure cooker so I have read...). Just realize that if you use this stuff and you don't have the training you can get your a55 sued off.

[TheOtherChris]

I try to make sure that we are always one month ahead for prescriptions on hand. That way we always have at least a 30 day supply.

[jerrymrc]

I have a pretty good kit at home but need to add more. you can autoclave stuff in a pressure cooker so I have read...). 15PSI for 30 min.;)

[tedbo]

I am one of those who doesn't have the schooling or knowledge other than putting on a band-aid.I am trying to get off center to go and get the right skills to be able to fix broken people and animals if the SHTF.
I have given my 1st shots of antibiotics to one of my horses about 6wks ago for a cut tendon but had to take her to U.T. Knoxville large animal school to get it right as I wasn't physically able to get upside down to properly dress the wounds.Now I am getting better and stronger.
I was considering the local Red Cross for classes.I used to have a cert for Lifeguarding and CPR but have long since lapsed.I am more concerned with info needed to getting someone prepped and comfortable for the hospital ride.
And who knows,gunshot wounds if the SHTF?
I have a med bag with things to do an IV and a scalpel,but I wouldn't think about using the stuff without proper schooling.I had gotten this with the idea that I have it on hand in case someone who had the skills but no bag could still be useful.What comes to mind is what if a doctor lost his bag due to a carjacking or home fire or who knows what?
I dunno,I was never a boy scout but I always loved the motto of always be prepared.Also better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!

[DrBaboon]

My suggestion is to size up your families needs - possibly with the help of your healthcare people. Next, consider the circumstances you might be preparing to endure. And don't forget that sanitation needs, or other aspects of infectious disease will probably play a larger role than trauma.

As much as vaccination is a contentious topic for many people, being up to date on vaccinations goes a long way towards being ready for the hazzards of getting through austere times.

I would also generally discourage trying to follow military models of rendering medical care.

Military models of care pre-suppose access to levels of care, evacuation, mostly young & healthy patients. It leads to protocols that are designed to work for repeatedly encountered injuries and illnesses that can be addressed in a standardized fashion.

Simply changing this equation by including the various relatives that make up a 3 generation family creates a whole different paradigm (for example - during hurricane season) than what a military model of care imagines.

I would also de-emphasize suturing wounds.

Primary closure of wounds is done to make nice neat wounds. It's not a really a way to avoid infection. Rather, inappropriately closing wounds is likely to lead to infection.

Open wounds, with healing via "secondary intention" (that is, via filling in with scar tissue) or delayed closure of wounds is a technique which reduces wound infections. It leads to less satisfactory scar appearance, however.

IMHO - the main reason to teach/learn suturing is the skill set that comes along with doing so. IOW - aseptic technique of handling supplies and instruments (such as how you open sterile packaging), donning/doffing sterile gloves, assisting, etc.

There's more that could be said on the topic, and I suspect that will come over time. I also realize that there will be people who disagree with me.

I believe this is a topic where "process" of making a group of decisions is more important than people agreeing on a particular "result" of that "process."

[ram]

Dr. Woodson gives some good medication advice for flu on his web site. I not too excited about his idea on recycling tamiflu, but the rest of it looks fairly solid.

http://fluwikie.com/annex/WoodsonMonograph.htm#_Toc116746502

[Jonas Parker]

My suggestion is to size up your families needs - possibly with the help of your healthcare people. Next, consider the circumstances you might be preparing to endure. And don't forget that sanitation needs, or other aspects of infectious disease will probably play a larger role than trauma.

As much as vaccination is a contentious topic for many people, being up to date on vaccinations goes a long way towards being ready for the hazzards of getting through austere times...



Very good advice, Doc! Having personally seen a tetanus death as a really bad way to go, I was (and still am) probably the most focused on those vaccinations and boosters which will keep my family and me safe from diseases that there really is no rational need to take chances on.

[akfanatic]

I am an EMT-P and the best advice I can give is to take the classes and get your EMT-B. The cost is minimal and most community colleges have night classes.
Once you get into the classes you will be surprised how much you will be learning/doing!
:D

[Dr. X]

Of all the skills I lack in, (and there are plenty of them) my medical are the worst, and the subject I know least about. I have never even taken a CPR class! I've always wondered how I'd deal with something beyond the usual cuts, scrapes and bruises when the SHTF. I was thinking about getting one of the Army manuals for basic ways to dress wounds, etc. , but have no idea what training manual #'s/ titles to look for. If necessary I would like to avoid having to go to school to learn basic medical skills (I have the attention span of a gnat) and really not enough time to devote to become proficient. Can any of the REAL Docs out there suggest anything?

as ever,
Dr. X

[bsdmon]

yea my only main concern is my asthma. eat advair disk is a 30 days supply and i usually have atleast 3-4 on hand at all times. after those run out i know caffiene can work to a degree. besides that i'll just have to be in good health and avoid irritants. and keep researching other natural ways to help it. all i would need is something that is an expectorant to clear phlem out of the lungs and something to bring down inflamation of the bronchial tubes.

[witchdoctor]

I am a Paramedic with some extra education. I have learned some expanded skills and figure I will be a doctor when SHTF for lack of a better name for it. I highly recommend the vaccinations and immunizations. I need to get some boosters myself actually, now that I think about it.

As for being prepared, buy a basic EMT kit from any number of suppliers. These kits have some useless stuff so you have chunk anything that you do not need. Next, GO GET TRAINING!!! Out of everything we should get training in the medical stuff is the easiest. Go to you local Red Cross, Community College, or even better volunteer at the local Fire Department OR Rescue Squad!!! Medical training is readily available in almost any community, it just depends on how far you are willing to go.

I have personally picked up a Blackhawk medical bag on the low discount price of 50% OFF, Thank you US Army for switching from woodland camo! It is stocked with a lot of bandages, dressings, advanced airways, IV's, and much more. But honestly it is only good for in the vehicle or bug-in. The bag is way too much to carry with all your other gear any distance. I have a smaller bag that contains basic first aid supplies and an IV. Every bag or survival vest I have contains atleast 1 small first aid kit. Bandaids, Neosporin, and Tweezers will be worth their weight in gold soon!!! I have a rubbermade tub of extra stuff just packed away too.

In short, GET TRAINED and BUY SOME BASIC STUFF!!!! Leave the advanced stuff to professionals / trained persons, but it does not hurt to have the supplies available for someone esle to use.

[gman552]

Greetings, all - just wandered over from the FAL Files.

About meds - I'd consider having some doxycycline 100 mg capsules in one's kit.

Broad-spectrum - useful for bacterial skin infections, Lyme disease, anthrax, Rocky mountain spotted fever, various STDs, and acne:

Doxycycline - wikipedia.org (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxycycline)

So you too can have a clear complexion even if the world has gone to hell in a handbasket :D

Relatively inexpensive - for example, drugstore.com has the hyclate form for $43.94 + shipping for 120 100 mg capsules:

Doxycycline hyclate 100 mg capsules - drugstore.com (http://www.drugstore.com/pharmacy/prices/drugprice.asp?ndc=00591544005&trx=1Z5006)

This is a prescription medication, so please consult your health care provider.

[Mars]

While I am at it, remember that dosing for kids and adults is different.


Also know that with the exception of the tetracyclines most of these meds are still good and potent in excess of their expiration dates. Store in cool place, keep out of direct sunlight.
Do not mix med suspensions with water until they are needed.

Now I am not going to tell you that it is okay to use expired meds but it is not as if one day they are good and the next they are not. you will have to use some common sense in this regard and try as you can to use fresh meds.

[Jonas Parker]

Tetracycline can be safely stored in your freezer and will not age until thawed and used.

The cheapest source of generic Benedryl is the Equate brand from Wal-Mart, available in 100 capsul bottles.

And now, with the "Gook with a Nuke" making headlines, pick up a bottle of potassium iodate for each member of your family, including your dog!

[DrBaboon]

KI or KIO3 are good ideas for radiation exposures but will only protect the thyroid gland from iodine radioisotopes, nothing else. It is for prevention of thryoid cancers down the road.
Just so others are aware. It is easy to come by.
You can also use chemical grade KI and make a saturated solution, dosing it that way. I think it is then 4 drops daily for an adult. I am not certain of that however, so people should check that out first. Obviously, lesser doses for children depending on size.

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drugprepare/KI_Q&A.htm

[Jonas Parker]

Doc, if you're looking to disinfect a surface (porous or non-porous) a commercial disinfectant like Buckeye Chemical Company's "Quat" which dilutes 1 to 4 (Quat to water) and is then sprayed on the surface and allowed to "dwell" (ie: remain damp) for a minimum of 10 minutes is probably a better way to go then chlorine bleach. Though not approved for surgical instrument sterlization, a careful reading of the literature on Quat would indicate to me that in the absence of an autoclave this might be an alternative.

[DrBaboon]

Disinfection, instrument sterilization, etc. is a great topic for discussion.

I'm going to start a new thread - let's continue it here:

http://www.survivalfiles.info/forums/showthread.php?p=485#post485

[Mars]

I've deleted my info.
You should also.

Good luck with your new site.

[akfanatic]

This is bad times for this thread.
Can anyone save it?

[DrBaboon]

Can anyone save it?

The only answer that comes to mind, is that members can save it - if they want to do so.

To stir the pot, and make some suggestions about either trying to save this thread or approaching medication threads generally:


Medication discussions end up being difficult and notoriously contentious - I've seen a number of such discussions over the years, and that always seems to be the case.

Antibiotic discussions and analgesic discussions are examples of where medication threads get even more challenging.

There are lots of reasons why this is the case... Ranging from individual preferences, to allergies, to where a participant resides.


Taking antibiotics as an example, there is a concept that is worthwhile taking the time to understand -- called antibiogram.

Antibiogram has 2 different meanings.

When I receive a report on a bacterial culture, when it includes information on antibiotic susceptibility testing, that's the antibiogram for that isolate. A one-time thing.

Then there is tabulating information obtained from as many bacterial isolates as possible, and compiling that into a large overview of antibiotic susceptibility information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiogram The Wikipedia article discusses a manner of recording an antibiogram for a particular isolate.

This helps you to change antibiotics if needed, or confirms your initial selection of antibiotic, or sometimes allows you to change to a narrower spectrum antibiotic, or one that's cheaper or less toxic or whatever.

As has been stated, this kind of information will not be available in many/most cases (maybe even all cases, but I actually disagree with that assessment in a long-term austere situation).

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/idepc/dtopics/antibioticresistance/antibiogram.html

This shows Minnesota tabulated information by year. IOW - a REALLY big antibiogram for the whole state for the whole year.

That is truly useful information.

It affects our antibiotic choices today, with the initial selection of an antibiotic.

Whether or not one is able to obtain culture information for the infection in the patient who is currently in front of you.



OK - so what has that got to do with why antibiotic discussions are difficult? Why is it hard to say what the "best" antibiotic choices for survival situations might be?


Well, in my locale, I am on staff at 2 hospitals.

Each institution prints up an antibiogram each year.

The 2 hospitals are less than 10 miles apart.

The antibiograms are *different.* Not in small ways. They are different in substantial ways.

As a result, my choices of initial antibiotics are different in the 2 hospitals.


That's information I file in my brain and make use of daily. And if needed, I get another look at the tabulation.


Hypothetical Situation: Let's say that I had one or more patients who were "snowbirds" and spent 1/2 the year in hurricane territory, and they asked for my assistance in setting aside some extra medications.

My highest priority for them would be to see that they had sufficient supplies of any maintainance medications they take.

Let's say they were going to have some additional medications for "a rainy day."

If those medications included one or more antibiotics, I would try to advise them (and *probably* Rx) based on what types of infections they might anticipate, and would add to that whatever information I could get about resistance patterns that would apply to their situation.


Unfortunately, I don't believe this is what was understood when I said that discussion of medications with one's healthcare team was appropriate.

I truly meant now. And in a recurring fashion. Not when communication is disrupted during a disaster.

Medications need to be replaced periodically for any of a number of reasons.

And if we're talking about antibiotics, what was a reasonable choice this year, might not be a good choice 2 years from now.



Let's take the possibility of people living in different places. There are regional issues in antibiotic choices.

But let's assume that much of the membership of this board will continue to come from the FAL Files.

That's a pretty international board, even though the majority of the members are from the USA.


Medication availability, degree of regulation vary from country to country.

For that matter, medication names change.

Something as "simple" as a discussion of Over The Counter analgesics means that we have to anticipate different words.

Let's assume a mostly USA membership. Let's talk about paracetamol. Do the majority of USA members know what I'm talking about?

In much of the world, paracetamol is the more common name for what we know in the USA as acetaminophen - with the common brand name of tylenol.



I'd like to see this discussion go into smaller pieces.

IOW - a discussion of analgesics as its own thread. Or a discussion of oral antibiotics for respiratory infections. Something along that line.

Or how to deal with maintainance medications for a particular condition.

Hypothetical Situation: Someone who has asthma and is on maintainance medications, but plans for an emergency supply AND plans to be able to switch to some other things if there were a prolonged austere situation.

See the embedded discussion of sorting out the asthma questions (even though the thread started in other places):

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1052614#post1052614



I dunno.

What do people want to do with this thread and these ideas?

[Jonas Parker]

I'm reminded of my four years on my high school debate team. The first speaker in each debate "defined the terms" (that is, gave dictionary definitions of the question of the debate). If this were not done, two teams could find themselves in the position of debating "apples" vs. "oranges", an exercise in verbal frustration at best.

For the purposes of this discussion then, let me propose some definitions of terms. Since this website is the "Survival Files", the forum is "Survival Medicine", and the thread topic is "Survival Meds for your family", we can eliminate from the discussion "maintenance medications" such as insulin for diabetics. It is up to each of us or our families to see that maintenance medications and the ability to store them properly is available in such quantities for such durations (72 hours, 72 days, 72 months, etc.) as the users and the families feel necessary.

So what are "Survival Medications"? Let's define "Survival Medications" as "medications, topical, oral, and injectable, suitable for use by personnel of lesser formal medical training, and of known effectiveness in the treatment of injuries and/or illnesses presumed to develop in our country when the normal sanitary services and the healthcare distribution system has broken down." In other words, we're talking about SHTF-TEOTWAWKI situations.

Note that these "Survival Medications" are not limited to antibiotics. Included in the topic would be anti-inflammatory drugs such as aspirin and Motrin, topical wound dressing drugs such as Bacitracin, oral rehydrating solutions such as Gatorade, and intra-veinous injections such as lactated Ringer's solution.

Many "over-the-counter" drugs sold today are merely lesser strength doses of prescription drugs. We then should know in what circumstances an OTC drug should be taken "3 tablets every 4 hours" rather than the recommended "2 tablets every 6 hours".

Two more considerations are "longevity" (how long will the drug remain effective before it should be disgarded) and "cost" (where can we get the most bang for the buck). What is recommended should be both long lived and affordable.

We should consider flexibility (for instance, Benedryl can also be used as a sleep aid).

Finally, for the sake of the forum, we might consider breaking "Survival Medications" down into sub-catagories such as "Prescription Drugs", "OTC Equivalents", "Wound Dressings", etc. This might make the overall discussion less daunting for the member who has not been formally trained.

Hope this answers your question, Doctor...

[witchdoctor]

Second that Jonas!!!

This thread has gotten so far off the original topic it is not even funny anymore. Personally, survival medicine for my family means WHAT DO I AND MY FAMILY NEED! This does not include mass casualties, various random people I encounter, and the like. Most medicine other than your needed prescriptions can be OTC meds. I am not going to worry about my dad's Lipitor when SHTF, but daily Asprin will be on hand. The bottom line is other people are S-O-L if they do not prepare now. They will not be my problem, but it sounds like some of you are wanting to start up a Free Clinic at your bug-out/in site.

General good health and hygiene will take care of a lot of the problems. Hand washing, bathing, cleaning wounds, and taking vitamins will go a long way. If it comes down to 10 people laying out in front of me I will triage them and do what I can, but I have no quams about saying who lives and who dies. I was trained to do that and have seen my good friend Death take people right out of my hands... SO YES I WILL MAKE THE CALL. I am not going to treat just anyone that needs it and I am going to spend time and resources treating those that will not benefit from it. And rest assured I will not bartering with my medical supplies.

As for what I have on hand:
Bandaids of all shapes and sizes (waterproof is better)
Trauma dressing
Slings
gauze
peroxide
bloodstoppers
tape
eye patches
sterile water
burn dressings / water-jel
IV supplies
Advanced Airways
Adult Bag-Valve-Mask
CPR Mask
Wire Splints
Tylenol
Asprin
Benedryl
Ibuprofin
Kepopectate (anti-diarrheal)
Hand Sanitizer
Blood pressure Cuff
Stethoscope
Israeli Bandages
Small First Aid Kits (pocket size)
4x4 gauze
ice packs
heat packs
surgical instruments
and the list will go on... this is just off the top of my head since i just woke up!!! :D